pez2008 Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Hi. My son in law and family are in Oz on the perm 176 state sponsored visa. He has lost his job and is struggling to find work as a rooftiler/slater (his profession for TRA etc). I just wondered if he has to work as part of his visa obligations and if he does HAVE to work must it be rooftiling/slating or any job on the thingy list or can he get any work as long as he is employed. Thanks in advance Pez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cazz Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Hi, I think he can do any work & no he doesn't have to work but will not be able to claim any sort of bebefit or get any help until he has been there for 2 years. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong. X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pez2008 Posted February 12, 2010 Author Share Posted February 12, 2010 Any body want to confirm please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melbournegirlinny Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 He doesn't have to work in the skill he got assessed for at all-ever! He also does not legally have to stay in the state that sponsored him either. I'm not sure whether he can get unemployment benefit-he needs to check on that. If he cannot get the dole then he might be able to get something called the special benefit-this is a fall-back catch-all benefit the goverment provides for people in dire straits. Here is a link to the 176 visa info on the Dept of Immigration website: Skilled – Sponsored (Migrant) Visa (Subclass 176) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest janagaraja Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Hi He has to stay in this state for first two years and that is his moral responsibilty else he may land in trouble in future if somewhere caught. He can work for any filed or he can stay without job. Yes first two years you can't claim for umemployment benefits.However if he has school going chidern then he can claim for family assitance which ic 150$ fortnightly and 49% of day care or after school care. Hope this helps jana He doesn't have to work in the skill he got assessed for at all-ever! He also does not legally have to stay in the state that sponsored him either. I'm not sure whether he can get unemployment benefit-he needs to check on that. If he cannot get the dole then he might be able to get something called the special benefit-this is a fall-back catch-all benefit the goverment provides for people in dire straits. Here is a link to the 176 visa info on the Dept of Immigration website: Skilled – Sponsored (Migrant) Visa (Subclass 176) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melbournegirlinny Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Sorry but what you write is not entirely correct. He cannot get into trouble if he moves to a state that is different from the state that sponsored his 176 visa. Being unemployed anyway is a good reason to move if he so wishes. There is no legal condition on his visa which requires him to stay in the state he sponsored. Some people see such a person as having a moral resonsibility to stay in the state that sponsored but that does not mean he can get into any trouble at all if he moves. I'm a lawyer and I've examined the rules on this if that helps to understand where I'm coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MouseBear Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Hi, My understanding of it is, as you have to sign an agreement which states that you have made a commitment to 'remain living and working' in the chosen state for 2 years, that it would be a requirement as it discusses your obligations to which ever state has sponsored you?? I'm not really sure how he could move? Maybe if he spoke to the state government and asked?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melbournegirlinny Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 No-legally he does not need to ask the state for permission to move to another state. If the state asks him where are you living now he should answer truthfully but no need to seek permission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MouseBear Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Would the other state that he moved into not mind though? I thought SS visas were all about getting people to where they were needed especially with the new implications coming into play with State Migration Plan lists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pez2008 Posted February 12, 2010 Author Share Posted February 12, 2010 Sorry but what you write is not entirely correct. He cannot get into trouble if he moves to a state that is different from the state that sponsored his 176 visa. Being unemployed anyway is a good reason to move if he so wishes. There is no legal condition on his visa which requires him to stay in the state he sponsored. Some people see such a person as having a moral resonsibility to stay in the state that sponsored but that does not mean he can get into any trouble at all if he moves. I'm a lawyer and I've examined the rules on this if that helps to understand where I'm coming from. This is correct as i was sponsored by SA but emigrated to Victoria SA were not very impressed when i told them my plans but i did have a good reason. My son in law and us are not changing states, hopefully something will come along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 Hi Pez I am very sorry to hear that your son in law has been laid off. With Benefits, there is usually a two year exclusion period for new migrants. If your s-i-l moved to Oz two or more years ago, he may be able to get help from Centrelink: Centrelink - Giving you options Melbournegirlinny is right that there is a "catch all" called Special Benefit. Australia does not allow its Permanent Residents to starve to death unless that is the person's own wish. I'd recommend an immediate visit to Centrelink because they may be able to help. Things like "Child Allowance" (I'm not sure of the exact Aussie term) types of Benefits are payable immediately without a new migrant's exclusion period, so it is definitely worth asking Centrelink whether they can assist. The sc 176 visa gives your son-in-law immediate Permanent Residency. In Oz, he can live where he likes and he can go where he likes, plus he can do whatever he likes by way of a job, or he does not necessarily have to do any job at all. MGY is absolutely right about all of this. Cheers Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hopejay Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 I am in the process of putting together the paperwork for the 176 visa (so still early stages). Our desire is to live in Sydney, but have chosen Victoria to allow for the state sponsorship. We just want to be there asap and know these visas are being fast tracked. Our agency told us that there is only a 'moral obligation' on you for even entering that state. They said you didn't even need your visa activating in Victoria - Sydney would be fine? This agent assured me that after her discussions with DIAC, DIAC did confirm that there is a loop hole for people to move around as they please. It all sounds so easy? Has anyone got any evidence either way. How can some people say "your visa can be taken off you" and others say "the Australian government won't even keep tabs on you". ANY ADVICE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melbournegirlinny Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 Sorry but the simplest way to explain why some people say they can take your visa off you if you move states and others, like me and Gill, say that is not true, is that those who say the former (you can have the visa taken off you) are either going on rumour which is wrong and they are not lawyers so do not know how to read the Migration Act and regulations etc and do not know what constitutes a legally enforceable 'condition' (the latter being a legal term) with those who are lawyers like me and Gill who better understand what a 'condition' is (because we learn that stuff when we study for our law degree and when we practise law). There is one visa, a 475, that is provisional and requires you to live in a regional area and if you do not live in a regional area it is possible that the Federal Government, who grant the visas and are the only government who can impose 'conditions' can cancel (although they do not seem to do this very often). Perhaps some non lawyer, non agent people who post on here get the 475 visa confused with the 176 visa. Mind you, I'm sure the states who give sponsorship don't want everyone moving to another state but they cannot do anything about it. The legal 'conditions' which apply to your visa are on the actual visa granted by the Federal Government. If you look at people who have been given state sponorship and have a 176 visa you will see there is NOTHING on there about having to live in a particular state. This is a constitutional issue--the state governments have no power to do anything about a visa that is issued by the Federal Government. Does this help at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hopejay Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 Yes that does help. Thank you. It just seems so simple thats all, Im finding it hard to believe as we really DO NOT want to live in Victoria. The way you explained it 'has' helped me to become more aware, and with you mentioning that the actual 176 visa doesn't say anything on it about being committed to a state, I can relax. As good as it sounds, I would love to hear true testament of someone who has done it sucessfully and then achieved citizenship without any problems. Do you have any idea whether this does effect citizenship? Although I can't see how! Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melbournegirlinny Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 Honestly, I cannot say much else-you either believe what I wrote or don't! I do know a recent migrant who got ACT sponsorship but got a job in Melbourne, Vic and is living there. Has had no problems. Again, it cannot affect getting citizenship because the Federal Government gives out citizenship not the state governments. I cannot offer any more on this -otherwise I am repeating myself. good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 Hi Hopejay A lot of migration agents would actively discourage a client from making the move to another State with a sc 176 or 475 visa. Some agents simply don't know any law because they are not required to study any law in detail. A six month course is all that it takes for a lay person to become a Registered Migration Agent in Oz. Becoming a Licenced Conveyancer in Oz takes a minimum of 2 years apparently. Immigration lawyers and migration agents -- what's the difference? Sometimes agents have very good reasons for encouraging a client to believe that WA State sponsorship means, "Live in WA for the necessary length of time." The client has to apply to the WA State Government and the application will be closely vetted by WA staff who live in WA and who know WA well. If the applicant really intends to head for Melbourne, the application to WA probably wouldn't be convincing, and the WA people might well chuck it out. Also, there is a legal oblgation on the visa applicant to tell the Minister for Immigration the truth and to tell him if there is a material change in the applicant's circumstances before the visa is granted and validated. So let us say that an applicant for a sc 176 visa applies to WA because he is on the WA State List but the applicant knows that his real intention is to head for Melbourne because he has family there but his occupation is not on the List for VIC. In this scenario, the applicant's claimed intention of heading for WA is not true at the time when he applies for WA State Sponsorship, it is not true at the time when he accepts the WA sponsorship and it is not true at the time when the Minister - via a delegate of the Minister - grants the visa. I wouldn't encourage a client to be an arrant liar throughout any sort of a legal process. I wouldn't want to act for an arrant liar either. However a friend of mine is in Perth at the moment and he genuinely wanted to go to Perth. His girlfriend had enrolled for a Student course in Perth and the chap's best mate lives in WA. So the guy has a sc 176 visa, sponsored by WA. They've now lived in Perth for about 7 months and all their plans have changed. The guy has decided that Sydney would be a better place for them both. I'm not convinced about that for this particular couple but I do know that the chap's original intentions were totally genuine at all material times. If he now thinks that Sydney would be a better option for them, there is no legal problem if they move. I know a lass, via Poms in Oz, who is a Journalist. The ACT gave her sponsorship so she moved to the ACT. She has found that she can't get a full time job in the ACT and the only work that anyone in the ACT has offered her is part time work, making dry-as-dust videos for various Federal Government Departments. A TV station in Sydney has offered her a full time job as a Newsreader or similar, getting stuck into real Journalism and real reporting of topical items of news. Commuting for about 3 hours each way every day is completely pointless as well as exhausting and expensive. If she can't find full time work in Canberra but she can find it in Sydney, she might as well move. She does not have to phone the State migration people in Canberra but since she was worried, I suggested that she should give them a ring because they will be able to reassure her that there is nothing illegal about her plans and her visa wouldn't be cancelled just because she moves in this situation. I don't want to see Poms in Oz telling people, "Oh tell the sponsoring State whatever you like because there is no legal obligation even to go there, let alone to move there." That is not the intention behind State sponsorship and I won't encourage anyone to tell lies knowingly. A lot of migration agents do tell their clients, "Oh the idea that you must move to the NT is only a moral obligation anyway. There is no requirement to actually do it." Legally that advice is not accurate. S104 of the Migration Act requires the applicant to tell the Minister if there is a material change of circumstance before the visa is validated. Not planning to go anywhere near the NT at any time is simply dishonest according to me, so that would be a material change of circumstance. It also really annoys me if an applicant who does not even live in Australia thinks that s/he is entitled to move to Australia and to treat the Aussies like dirt. One woman told me, "Oh but it is only a moral obligation." I retorted, "So? Do you ignore every other moral obligation in your life as well or are the Aussies going to receive some sort of special favour from you?" I'm not going to tell such a woman to rat on the Aussies. What she does on the day is up to her but treating Australia with some respect would be a start in my opinion! I think that counselling someone well and properly depends on finding out why they want to move away from the sponsoring State. Pez, who started this thread, has a very good reason. They had avery intention of moving to Adelaide and living there for a couple of years but they have family in Geelong, in VIC. In that situation, they are entitled to have a change of heart later because the distance is about 700kms and takes 2 days of most people's time. Cheers Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrounders Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 Gill, it's that kind of excellent post that makes PIO a cut above the rest.:biggrin: Please note:- I was under no moral obligation to tell you that ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hopejay Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 Thanks Gill & MGY, I appreciate both of your feedback. Gill, I totally hear what you're saying! And it's that whole 'moral obligation' thing that keeps niggling away at me. I suppose I do have high morals and normally I would never consider this, but with my agency sugar coating it, it sounded too good to be true. After researching it for myself through these forums, it certainly has given me a new insight into the whole thing. I would certainly hate to take advantage of the situation and I know I have a lot more thinking to do. So thank you again. I really do appreciate your honesty. Hopejay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aby Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 Great Reply MGY :-) I second that... Thanks for everything Sorry but the simplest way to explain why some people say they can take your visa off you if you move states and others, like me and Gill, say that is not true, is that those who say the former (you can have the visa taken off you) are either going on rumour which is wrong and they are not lawyers so do not know how to read the Migration Act and regulations etc and do not know what constitutes a legally enforceable 'condition' (the latter being a legal term) with those who are lawyers like me and Gill who better understand what a 'condition' is (because we learn that stuff when we study for our law degree and when we practise law). There is one visa, a 475, that is provisional and requires you to live in a regional area and if you do not live in a regional area it is possible that the Federal Government, who grant the visas and are the only government who can impose 'conditions' can cancel (although they do not seem to do this very often). Perhaps some non lawyer, non agent people who post on here get the 475 visa confused with the 176 visa. Mind you, I'm sure the states who give sponsorship don't want everyone moving to another state but they cannot do anything about it. The legal 'conditions' which apply to your visa are on the actual visa granted by the Federal Government. If you look at people who have been given state sponorship and have a 176 visa you will see there is NOTHING on there about having to live in a particular state. This is a constitutional issue--the state governments have no power to do anything about a visa that is issued by the Federal Government. Does this help at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akmirror Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 A big thank you to Gill and MGY for that comprehensive details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adieuk Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 No-legally he does not need to ask the state for permission to move to another state. If the state asks him where are you living now he should answer truthfully but no need to seek permission. Hi, We also have a 176 visa which was granted in August 2009 for sponsorship to WA. If certain conditions are specified in the sponsorship agreement which we signed, such as agreeing to stay in the state for two years, completing 6 monthly interviews and transferring in our case 450000 Au dollars into WA does this legally bind us to these conditions ? We travelled over for a recce in 2010 to find that that there was no work, house prices too expensive to achieve the same as we had in the UK in terms of area and quality of schools and incredibly difficult to achieve licensing requirements. Too cap it all off the exchange plummeted which has made the situation even worse. Three years on and with only 21 months left on our visa we started to look at other options and found this thread regarding the moral-only obligation to stay in western australia for 2 years. We have been registered with agencies for work in WA and received no interest at all. We have continually searched for jobs but nearly every vacancy requires at least 3 years WA experience and what was really frustrating was that there were many jobs advertised in other states. It has been like a breath of fresh air but we want to ensure that our visa requirements are not differing from the norm. At the end of the day we have a family to move over there and the most important issue is finding work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shashinianuttara Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 I know this question is asked by many but I am just curious of the consequences of not being able to fulfill the 2 year commitment to the sponsoring state with 176 visa. Me and my son are in perth and came here thinking this would be our future home. It has been two months and so far no luck with a job and my son seems very unsettle here as we do not have any family or friends so I am thinking to moving to sydney as that is where i have my brother and many relatives. So if i do this, will this effect my visa in the long run or the citizenship? secondly will this ever effect in finding a job? can an employer ask if i had fulfill the requirement of 2 years in sponsoring state etc? and can government change the law in the future? I came with good intentions to stay in perth for two years but have found without support it is very difficult and one problem is linked to another. Finding a job has been a difficult task as well as what they look for is australian qualification. if i go to sydney i do not have to pay rent as i can stay with my brothers until i find a job but here everything is costly and all the money that i got from sri lanka are spending on the rent and needs of my son. Can i approach the immigration in WA and tell them the real situation and will they understand it and release me. Further, once i go to sydney i will have to put my son to preschool so in another words centrelink will get to know that as i am entitled for some payments for his schools and will this effect the visa or will the WA government finds out about it. Please advice and appreciate your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shashinianuttara Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 any experts out there who can advice me on this pls. Thanks a million Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 any experts out there who can advice me on this pls. Thanks a million Well you could start by reading the rest of hte thread that you posted on? Or do a search and you will find gazillions of others as it has been discussed soooo many times. :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shashinianuttara Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Well you could start by reading the rest of hte thread that you posted on? Or do a search and you will find gazillions of others as it has been discussed soooo many times. :wink: Thanks Rupert and I actually did it. However what i want to know is in case if i go to another state and out my son into day care and claim that money from Centralink will that have any effect as i was not living in the sponsoring state. Pls advice.. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.